Wednesday, April 10, 2013

Another couple of mash-ups

I spotted the first of these from Nick Mizer's G+ commentary, and the second one has been on my radar ever since the good people at Gamegrene cast a jaundiced eye towards D&D 4th Edition back in 2009.  The contrast between the two is noticeable.

From Dungeon of Signs:
"D&D is not heroic fantasy, it's low fantasy, and it's not a game of power fantasies for each player, but a a game of collective world-building between players and GM.  By "power fantasy" I'm not trying to be dismissive to other games or genres that are about individual advancement of an avatar, I'm attempting to draw a distinction between a fantasy narrative that is of individual success (empowerment) and one that is the narrative of a world (like a history)."
Gamegrene's 2009 "review" of D&D 5th Edition:
"This Dungeon Scenario is custom-tailored to your specific group, and perfectly balanced so no one ever has a chance of dying. It's like being in your very own novel as the heroes! Each Scenario includes a brief introductory scene (you can role play if you want to but why bother, you can skip this) and then a Dungeon Delve to enter, with a monster encounter and some treasure, all pre-designed in the book and well-balanced. Kill the monster and move on. Just run through 5 two-page encounters and you get a level. 10 pages per level, 500 pages total, lots of content, and all of it is predictable, fun and fast!"
Not that this bears any resemblance to games currently being played, right?  But if someone wanted to object to Gamegrene's rather pointed critique, then perhaps they might first look at some of the things said about the OSR by gamers with a "New School" perspective....

 

81 comments:

  1. Dogmatic universals make my teeth hurt ("D&D is not heroic fantasy, it's low fantasy...."), and I'm not sure I've ever seen a good definition of low fantasy that didn't founder on a vast shoal of corner cases. Nevertheless, I think the point is well taken that the design philosophy behind OD&D (not the way it was actually played, mind you) supported a play style in which the conflict was between the *player* and the DM, mediated through the character(s) being played. IIRC, the concept of bounds on in-character knowledge was largely unknown, Back In The Day; PCs were the players' pieces, and if you lost one you made another.

    Once the game got out in the real world for a reasonable length of time, of course, people got attached to their characters, and the concept of role-playing became something a little more immersive than talking in a funny accent and throwing invocations to fictitious deities into one's speech, by Crom. Lather/rinse/repeat over several decades (?!), and you get something that bears enough of a resemblance to Gamegrene's "review" to make it ironically funny.

    But that's not a bad thing. People can pick an approximate point on the spectrum from PC-as-disposable-piece to PC-as-lovingly-crafted-personality and play with other people who live in the same general area, and everyone has fun. Which is, as cannot be repeated often enough, the point of the exercise.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Which is, as cannot be repeated often enough, the point of the exercise."

      Some of the D&D Next crowd need to be reminded of this simple fact.

      Delete
    2. As the author of the post on Dungeon of Signs I want to point out that I am more interested in contrasting B/X with ODD rather than anything related to newer stuff. There's no malice in that, newer editions seem fun, but time and budget are not permitting. My characterizations of OD&D are about what I've found fun, and how I want to run my own games - not an effort to edition war.

      I've heard complaints (even among older edition players) about the arbitrary nature of lethality in whitebox D&D - which occurs because the rules prevent a dramatic increase in HP and more important, a limit AC to 2.

      I recently attempted to transform my B/X Flailsnails G+ game along ODD lines because I've enjoyed playing these games, and because the world I wanted to build had a survival horror element missing from the way it was working. My player demurrered. That's where my thoughts were coming from.

      I'm also not suggesting a return to the wargame style of D&D - I think it's great that people want to invest in their characters and have fun with voices and character worldviews (I try it myself) - but I think that a recognition that there's a huge acting element and that the adventurer's fate is ultimately an ignominious death more often than not is part of the fun. It's like playing Hamlet as an actor - great part, but he dies at the end...

      Delete
    3. That certainly makes sense, but from my vantage point, I see much more similarity between B/X and OD&D than I do between either of them and 3rd Edition/Pathfinder or 4th Edition. To me (and this is just me), the difference between B/X and OD&D is about the same as between 3.0 and 3.5 (or perhaps Pathfinder). For certain kinds of play, there are distinctions which can be drawn, but ultimately they are more similar than different, compared to other editions.

      Delete
    4. Maybe I'm riding the philosophical difference thing harder than it should be, but there seems to be a distinct contrast between OD&D (retirement encouraged between L9 & L12) and BECMI (the idea of that last part). OD&D and 1e are closer in that regard; look at all the spells that carried aging penalties in 1e, e.g., and it's hard to escape the idea that EGG thought of characters as fundamentally disposable.

      I guess I also don't see that individual power fantasies are necessarily incompatible with collaborative worldbuilding, although there's the potential for tension between them.

      Delete
    5. I think it's a matter of emphasis and control.

      Delete
  2. Victor Raymond - I used to think that as well, B/X just seemed like a less opaque better LBB - but I swear with the conviction of a new convert that the ODD system is actually a lot different and very streamlines. The game I've been playing is heavily house-ruled by Brendan of Necropraxis (formerly Untimately) who is very into thinking about system and rules streamlining. I touched on it in the OP, but basically when you decrease player and monster survivability it retains the "combat as last resort" ethos of low level play into the mid level game - which is normally a bit of an ugly void before the "saving throw dice off" of high level combat.

    This gets to what tandw is saying. His distinction there is quite real as well. I want to touch on the comment about "individual power fantasy" as well - it's not that LBB can't play that way, but when one has individual PC's as the focus of the player's enjoyment of the game it becomes frustrating I think with the lethality of the system. Viewing the party as the player's collective "piece" and fiction maker makes for more fun. Heck, if ODD players wanted to swap characters around every game or so after agreeing to basic personalities that might work real well.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Having started playing D&D with the Original D&D set, I hear you. I guess I never played that much B/X as it seemed to be a retread of OD&D with some editing. I'll take your word for the difference between the two, but please don't assume that's because I am unfamiliar with what you describe - it's actually what I was (and am) used to.

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  41. There are two very important things that come to our mind when we think about a home inspection:
     Is it safe to let a stranger inside our house?
     Is spending money on this worth it?
    We have the answers for you. While residing in Atlanta, and along with many options to choose from, Champia Real Estate is the best choice for you. While spending on getting a home inspection from them, it is affirmative that in whole Atlanta home inspection prices are very affordable as compared to the quality of services they are providing. They make sure that the money you are spending is worth the hustle. They involve you in the process to give you proper insights and maintenance tips. Atlanta GA, home inspectors sent by Champia are certified professionals and they come with insurance plus different sorts of residential warranties so you can totally rely on them when it comes to these two terms which can make you worry about the process.

    ReplyDelete
  42. When it comes to Home Inspections Atlanta Georgia has the best inspection company named as Champia Real Estate Inspections because they were founded in 1987 and since then they have been serving with excellence. They have over 50000 completed inspections in their portfolio and have diverse expertise. This real estate inspection company deals with residential as well as commercial home inspections and have a delivery time of reports in 24 hours for residential inspections and around four days for commercial inspections. Their quick and efficient service plus their customer satisfaction rate is what makes their best Home Inspection Marietta GAand other states of Atlanta has to offer. Among many others, the three key qualities that make them prominent are their experience, certifications and their affordability.
    They come with additional warranties for residential inspections only so that the homeowner is comfortable with the services and the person that they are letting inside their house.

    ReplyDelete
  43. When it comes to Real Estate Inspections Champia real estate inspections have the best services to offer. As they have the best home inspectors in Atlanta who have the necessary expertise to perform a successful home inspection and adequate experience. They have completed over 50000 inspections and a great number of positive reviews as a proof that you can rely on them completely when it comes to the healthy environment of your home. They provide a number of warranties as well for residential inspection so you can be relaxed about the outcome of the inspection. For residential inspection, they give 24 hours ultimatum and schedule and complete the appointments and reports at the exact time. The home inspectors at Champia are very adaptive and care about your comfort. They love it when you are an active part of the home inspection because in this way you can get to know more about the details and they can give you more tips about the maintenance about how to take care of your house after the inspection process.

    ReplyDelete
  44. When it comes to home inspection Atlanta ga has the best home inspection company who will deal with all your problems relating to the health of your house. One of the very common problems that are present in almost every house either known or unknown is the presence of mold inside the house. Mold is present around us everywhere so it is nearly impossible to eradicate them completely unless it is some heavy mechanical equipment. They are present in the air in the form of spores and spread on moist environments. It is a good new and bad one too because if you have moist surfaces at your home, there is a good chance that mold is present around you too and it can cause many harms to your health. It is also a reason to worsen present medical conditions like allergies and respiratory diseases. Champia offers the best mold inspection Atlanta has. They have necessary expertise and equipment to deal with this problem and help you get rid of it.

    ReplyDelete
  45. In Atlanta, Real Estate Inspections are an important part to be included in your property maintenance routine because as much as getting your painted or getting apparent repairs done is important, a home inspection is important in order to know if your house is safe for you and your family to live or not. There are many factors that are hazardous for your family such as high levels of radon inside your home, mold problems, water leaks, termites, air pollution and other factors that pose a threat to your health. A known name for Home Inspection Atlanta has is Champia Real Estate Inspection which deals in home inspection as well as commercial inspections. They were founded in 1987 and have a record of over 50,000 completed inspections and a completion time of 24 hours which is pretty quick. Not to forget their multiple warranties on home inspection which makes it even more reliable.

    ReplyDelete
  46. In Atlanta real estate inspection is considered an important factor before proceeding with that property, whether its a workplace or your home. The fact that wherever you are going to spend the maximum of your time should be healthy for you. While we take care of the cleanliness of the space we are working in, taking care of the air quality around us is important as well. One of the most dangerous toxin that is present in the air around us is radon. Radon gas is present in the air around us but when it gets trapped around us inside our property where we breath, it can get stuck inside our system and its prolonged inhalation is the leading cause of lung cancer in non smokers. Champia real estate inspections offer best Radon testing in Atlanta as they have the necessary equipment and experienced professional with relevant expertise and a huge number of positive reviews so one can completely rely on them regarding your safety and satisfying results.

    ReplyDelete
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  49. In Atlanta real estate inspection is considered an important factor before proceeding with that property, whether its a workplace or your home. The fact that wherever you are going to spend the maximum of your time should be healthy for you. While we take care of the cleanliness of the space we are working in, taking care of the air quality around us is important as well. One of the most dangerous toxin that is present in the air around us is radon. Radon gas is present in the air around us but when it gets trapped around us inside our property where we breath, it can get stuck inside our system and its prolonged inhalation is the leading cause of lung cancer in non smokers. Champia real estate inspections offer best Radon testing Atlanta as they have the necessary equipment and experienced professional with relevant expertise and a huge number of positive reviews so one can completely rely on them regarding your safety and satisfying results.

    ReplyDelete
  50. In Atlanta, Real Estate Inspections are an important part to be included in your property maintenance routine because as much as getting your painted or getting apparent repairs done is important, a home inspection is important in order to know if your house is safe for you and your family to live or not. There are many factors that are hazardous for your family such as high levels of radon inside your home, mold problems, water leaks, termites, air pollution and other factors that pose a threat to your health. A known name for Home Inspection Atlanta has is Champia Real Estate Inspection which deals in home inspection as well as commercial inspections. They were founded in 1987 and have a record of over 50,000 completed inspections and a completion time of 24 hours which is pretty quick. Not to forget their multiple warranties on home inspection which makes it even more reliable.

    ReplyDelete
  51. When it comes to home inspection Atlanta ga has the best home inspection company who will deal with all your problems relating to the health of your house. One of the very common problems that are present in almost every house either known or unknown is the presence of mold inside the house. Mold is present around us everywhere so it is nearly impossible to eradicate them completely unless it is some heavy mechanical equipment. They are present in the air in the form of spores and spread on moist environments. It is a good new and bad one too because if you have moist surfaces at your home, there is a good chance that mold is present around you too and it can cause many harms to your health. It is also a reason to worsen present medical conditions like allergies and respiratory diseases. Champia offers the best Mold testing atlanta has. They have necessary expertise and equipment to deal with this problem and help you get rid of it.

    ReplyDelete
  52. When it comes to Mold Testing Champia real estate inspections have the best services to offer. As they have the best home inspectors in Atlanta who have the necessary expertise to perform a successful home inspection and adequate experience. They have completed over 50000 inspections and a great number of positive reviews as a proof that you can rely on them completely when it comes to the healthy environment of your home. They provide a number of warranties as well for residential inspection so you can be relaxed about the outcome of the inspection. For residential inspection, they give 24 hours ultimatum and schedule and complete the appointments and reports at the exact time. The home inspectors at Champia are very adaptive and care about your comfort. They love it when you are an active part of the home inspection because in this way you can get to know more about the details and they can give you more tips about the maintenance about how to take care of your house after the inspection process.

    ReplyDelete
  53. When it comes to Home Inspections Atlanta Georgia has the best inspection company named as Champia Real Estate Inspections because they were founded in 1987 and since then they have been serving with excellence. They have over 50000 completed inspections in their portfolio and have diverse expertise. This real estate inspection company deals with residential as well as commercial home inspections and have a delivery time of reports in 24 hours for residential inspections and around four days for commercial inspections. Their quick and efficient service plus their customer satisfaction rate is what makes their best real estate inspection and other states of Atlanta has to offer. Among many others, the three key qualities that make them prominent are their experience, certifications and their affordability. They come with additional warranties for residential inspections only so that the homeowner is comfortable with the services and the person that they are letting inside their house.

    ReplyDelete
  54. There are two very important things that come to our mind when we think about a home inspection:
     Is it safe to let a stranger inside our house?
     Is spending money on this worth it?
    We have the answers for you. While residing in Atlanta, and along with many options to choose from, Champia Real Estate is the best choice for you. While spending on getting a home inspection from them, it is affirmative that in whole Atlanta home inspection prices are very affordable as compared to the quality of services they are providing. They make sure that the money you are spending is worth the hustle. They involve you in the process to give you proper insights and maintenance tips. home inspectors in atlanta sent by Champia are certified professionals and they come with insurance plus different sorts of residential warranties so you can totally rely on them when it comes to these two terms which can make you worry about the process.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Atlanta home inspection is a booming industry because of the many cases found inside the homes which were proven to affect the health of the residents and the structure of the house. House inspection companies help out the residents in finding out what is wrong with the place they are residing or even if they are buying that property. Champia Real Estate inspections have the best home inspectors Atlanta has to offer because of their vast experience and their expertise in this field. Champia Real Estate Inspections has been working in Atlanta since 1987 and have a great number of positive reviews in their pocket to back their services. Their home inspectors are friendly and adaptable hence they make it easy for the customer to address their issues to them in order to understand the situation completely and take the necessary steps needed. To make it more comforting, they back their services with a number of warranties so that customers can rely on them completely.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Suppose a person is working solely as an owner of a home inspection company and he does not need to hire more people as he thinks that he is doing his job perfectly and does not want to add more people to it because they may ruin it for him by providing compromised services but as he is always on the go to provide his best services, he often tends to miss calls or cannot respond to them because he is busy all the time. Then he comes across a solution which means that all his calls will be answered by someone else who will make sure to do this job perfectly giving him more time to complete his inspections peacefully and more jobs are waiting for him as all of his inquiry calls are getting attended. When provided with a proper Customer Care solution home inspection became a stress free job for him as he knew that he only has to focus on one thing which he does the best. Believe it or not but once he became aware about the benefits of Inspector Service Group his life became tension free and his sales boosted up instantly because no potential calls were being missed.

    ReplyDelete
  57. A popular concept is present in the market which is termed as the cost of a missed call which is not understood by all. People are not aware of the importance of an inquiry call as there are many coming every day and when you are working in a home inspection company, you are often busy with the actual task which is a successful home inspection but how will you get a job of performing a home inspection if you keep missing calls? In the industry of Home Inspection Lead Management is important because 1 out of 5 calls can be potential and losing a potential call will end up in you losing a sale which will affect the business. When we talk about Customer Service Home Inspection industry needs it the most because when people call a home inspection company, they are often worried about the condition of their house or what affect it will be having on the health of the residents of their house so in order to make sure that a customer is satisfied with the response he gets when he calls a company for help. This is where Inspector Call Center comes for your rescue by saving your business from losing potential sales and leaving your callers content.

    ReplyDelete
  58. While working as a home inspection company, the actual job for them is to complete successful home inspections in which the customer is satisfied with their services at the end of each inspection and is happy to leave a positive review but what happens when the matter is not closed to book a home inspection? What if you are busy delivering your best services and while doing so, you miss a call that could actually be a successful sale for you? This is why we recommend you to get an Outbound Calling Service Home Inspection requires your complete attention and that is why ICC is here for you to take your calls and satisfy the customers with adequate answers to their queries. Homeowners, while looking for an impeccable home inspection schedule appointments in a rush because they are concerned about the state of their house. This is where we come in. We make sure to attend their calls in time, satisfy them about the services they will be given and prepare a proper tentative schedule for you to just go and perform your job without worrying about the hassle of picking the calls of potential clients.

    ReplyDelete
  59. In an industry like Home Inspection Answering Calls Solution is very important as you get your job through calls so if you miss the calls you are getting as inquiries, you will eventually lose the sales. Home inspection services hold the essence of a good impression by delivering 100% customer satisfaction which means that at the end of the day, if your customers are not happy with your services, this will impact your business badly but a very important point that is missed that a person will only book an inspection if he is convinced on call about what he will be provided with once he does it. If a person calls a company, worried about the state of his house and call is not picked, he will definitely call the next best option to fix this problem. And even if the call is attended and he is not satisfied with what he is being told, he will not proceed further and book an inspection. This is where people need to understand the importance that Call Center Solution for Real Estate holds. If a person is satisfied, he will definitely give you the job and spread positive word of mouth about the services he got from the moment he called the company till the moment the inspection was done.

    ReplyDelete
  60. What do people think about a business having the need to outsource a call center to get help as a Calling Solution Home Inspection is also one of those industries in which assistance from outer sources is present as performing the actual home inspection is different and being available all day for query calls is different. But this does not mean that these calls are not important, they are equally important as a sale because out of all these calls, a study showed that there is a 33.33% chance that one call is a potential sale which means that if you are getting 5 calls, 1 out of them can be a potential one but if you miss the call due to your commitment to work which is not a bad thing, you will eventually lose more work which means loss. Therefore, in an industry like Home Inspection Call Center is a word that sounds like a blessing due to the mere fact that home inspection companies need professionals to answer their query calls and satisfy their customers about the services they are going to get beforehand so that they are 100% sure about their decision and once the sale is locked, the cause is served. But this cannot be done without the help of a third party who treats your business like their own, gets to know it, knows how to satisfy your customers by highlighting your positive points and book and schedule appointments without any clash and extreme professionalism. To your luck, Inspector Call Center is exactly doing this in order to provide you the extreme comfort of just doing your job, giving the maximum output out there without having to worry about the fact that someone out there is calling you for help and you are not available because gone are such days, now you can perform your job with 100% effort and respond to all the calls and queries at the same time, all thanks to ICC.


    ReplyDelete
  61. As much as home inspections are important,commercial property inspection in maryland also holds a vast importance as offices are considered to be the second place where people spend most of the time in a day. It is very important to get the place inspected thoroughly as EPA reported around 21000 deaths annually due to radon exposure which causes lung cancer in non-smokers. Radon inspection cost in maryland is nothing as compared to the price you will have to pay when prolonged radon exposure will result in causing major health issues. Radon is a colorless odorless gas present in the air all around us in trace amounts but it becomes a hazard when it gets entrapped inside the house and the residents of the house are exposed to it. The safe levels of radon as suggested by EPA is 4pCi/l and the amount more than it is alarming and you need to install a radon mitigation system at your commercial property as soon as possible.

    ReplyDelete
  62. It is a common known fact now that radon is a very harmful gas which can get trapped inside our house and then our lungs if inhaled for a longer period of time and it has known to cause lung cancer in non-smokers. In fact, it is the second leading cause of lung cancer after smoking. Due to this reason and as stated by EPA, radon exposure leading to lung cancer takes around 21000 lives annually which is a very alarming figure and this is the reason that without radon testing inspection in Gaithersburg md is incomplete. When a person is looking for a successful home inspection which will make it easy for him to understand what is wrong with his house and what measures should be taken in order to get rid of the problems found, he looks around for a best home inspector to do it for him, he searches words likehome inspectors gaithersburg md in order to find a best options ar at least some good options to choose from, but we have made it easy for you. At Top to Bottom Services, we ensure that you get the best home inspector who will help you throughout the process and will familiarize you with what is happening and deliver maximum satisfaction. You should put 5% of your trust in us and we will gain the 95% back.

    ReplyDelete
  63. When it comes to our homes and their safety, we always want the best. This condition can be applied anywhere and you will not be surprised to see that this is actually the truth. So if we put the inspection of our house in this list, it is obvious that we want quality home inspection in maryland which will ensure that we are free from all the problems by the end of the whole procedure, no matter how many sessions it takes. Usually it's just one inspection but when there is an issue detected which needs more than one day or requires follow up tests, it can take some time hence we should be confident about the person or company we have chosen to proceed further with the whole process. If a person is looking for a home inspection company that will help him get rid of all the problems related to his house, he definitely wants the best. If he searches words like residential home inspector in gaithersburg md and is unable to decide from a number of options, we are here to make it easy for you. At Top to Bottom Services, there are a number of warranties and guarantees that will assure you that we are in safe hands and your investment on your dear house and the trust you have put in us will not go wasted.

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  64. There are many problems encountered by residents while living in a house which depicts that the house needs immediate care. Suppose the residents of your house are developing allergic reactions which makes our safe space at home a little hard to live. Home is a place where a person comes after a tiring day but what if he is not getting peace at his own place, what should he do then? A professional home inspection in gaithersburg md is always needed in order to make sure that the house where we are living is safe from all the toxins that may affect our health and all other factors that could cause damage to our property which was built with love and a huge amount of our savings. If you suspect something is present in your house causing your family to develop allergic reactions like stuffiness of nose or sneezing, coughing etc, call top to bottom services today and we will make sure to provide you a thorough home mold inspection in gaithersburg md in order to be sure if this is the problem that has been affecting you or there is something more grave present inside your house that needs immediate attention.

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  65. When a person feels that they have a certain type of problem present inside their house and they want to get it fixed, they are always anticipating best services in order to know that their house is perfectly safe and secure for them. People often Google words like home inspection services in maryland to know if they have a reliable source working near them which can provide them the best services available in the market. They also tend to rely on positive word of mouth from their close ones or relatives to check if they have taken these services before and how their experience was. It is always advisable for you in any case that you should opt for certified home inspection gaithersburg md so that you should know that the person coming inside your house is qualified, certified and reliable and you can trust them. We, at Top to Bottom Services, are proud to say that we have all of this and more in the box for you so book an inspection today and leave the rest to us.

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