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Much agreement. One of the few games I enjo...Yup. Much agreement. One of the few games I enjoyed that way was and has been Classic Traveller. I've whiled away many an afternoon rolling up characters just to see what I could get. Mind you, I also ended up with some pretty interesting NPCs as a result.Victor Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05928494560036528653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5391338032578456039.post-7514538392066289982013-11-01T06:42:46.946-05:002013-11-01T06:42:46.946-05:00There's also an issue that when the character ...There's also an issue that when the character generation process is long-winded, then the character sheets are going to be more complicated and difficult to follow. If the character stats/abilities/whatever is too complex you can be constrained to playing the statistics instead of being free to role-play the _character_.<br /><br />Having said that I've enjoyed creating characters in some terribly complex generation rules (Space Opera and MERP spring to mind from dim-and-distant memory) but I've ended up treating that as a mini-game in itself rather than part of a game; it's probably no coincidence that these are games that I've never ended up actually _playing_!Chris Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00046162712879124711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5391338032578456039.post-73726937772409559822013-10-25T19:40:39.099-05:002013-10-25T19:40:39.099-05:00No, I had noticed it before, but the combination o...No, I had noticed it before, but the combination of an open gaming night and an emphasis on Old School games brought it into particularly sharp focus. The notion of premature character investment can lead to a variety of later problems, including the idea that character death should be taken personally by the player, which in turn fosters an unhealthy sense of adversarial play between the player and the referee, which then leads to the notion that the world (or setting) is something to "beat" rather than something to experience. There's more there, but that's a start. I definitely agree with you about risk avoidance and subsequent railroading.<br /><br />Phil usually had us roll some dice - it was often just the stat generation from EPT with some of the social determination material from S&G. If you wanted to do more you could, but not that Phil was going to pay much attention to it. ;)Victor Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05928494560036528653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5391338032578456039.post-70805921022604233072013-10-25T07:15:49.900-05:002013-10-25T07:15:49.900-05:00"long drawn-out character generation processe..."long drawn-out character generation processes favor premature character investment by players."<br /><br />I'm surprised that you've only just noticed this, Victor. It was the key element in my desire to return to "old school" games.<br /><br />Long character generation leads to character investment leads to not wanting to take real risks. And that, combined with a desire to actually play something resembling an adventure game leads directly to railroading both of the players and the GM in an effort to spin a worthwhile story without crushing expectations (to say nothing of having to break for an hour while characters are generated).<br /><br />I'm guessing the Prof's character generation was not as long winded as that which saw daylight in Adventures on Tekumel? It's a wonderful system for making a character to put on a shelf, but not for risking down a catacomb or some Ssu hell-hole.Nagorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10805769538648631984noreply@blogger.com